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	<title>Comments on: Marc Faber: Obama makes Bush look like a genius</title>
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	<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html</link>
	<description>Finance, Economics and Markets</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:37:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Edward Harrison</title>
		<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58273</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58273</guid>
		<description>Here are a few links. I have addressed state pensions and deficits and Medicare at length in the past. Rather than re-hash it here, I&#039;ll provide the following links:

On Medicare/Medicaid:
http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/06/means-of-deficit-reduction-medicare-and-social-security.html

State local pensions:
http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/pension-disaster-makes-states-and-cities-into-financial-basket-cases.html

State budgets:
http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/01/will-federal-largesse-be-countered-by-state-and-local-cutbacks.html
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are a few links. I have addressed state pensions and deficits and Medicare at length in the past. Rather than re-hash it here, I&#8217;ll provide the following links:</p>
<p>On Medicare/Medicaid:<br />
<a href="http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/06/means-of-deficit-reduction-medicare-and-social-security.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/06/means-of-deficit-reduction-medicare-and-social-security.html</a></p>
<p>State local pensions:<br />
<a href="http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/pension-disaster-makes-states-and-cities-into-financial-basket-cases.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/pension-disaster-makes-states-and-cities-into-financial-basket-cases.html</a></p>
<p>State budgets:<br />
<a href="http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/01/will-federal-largesse-be-countered-by-state-and-local-cutbacks.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/01/will-federal-largesse-be-countered-by-state-and-local-cutbacks.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Marshall Auerback</title>
		<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58272</link>
		<dc:creator>Marshall Auerback</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58272</guid>
		<description>In a message dated 1/31/2010 16:41:16 Mountain Standard Time,  
 writes:

MA - I  guess we&#039;ll just have to wait and see.



My prediction on  Japan:



Japanese debt is largely self-financed - yet there will  be limits to that 
and we will see a change in internal demand and many buyers  will become net 
sellers.  Japan will look abroad for demand and yields  will have to rise.  



Trade between nations with asymmetric  wage/labor/environmental laws 
destroys jobs for the more regulated  nation.  These jobs will not come back.  GDP 
will be impacted.   This is not a red herring.



The only Job Guarantee Program that  worked under Roosevelt was a World 
War.  I&#039;m no fan of  that.



I agree that we need to continue deficit spending - but  only because we 
have a debt based monetary system that requires it.  The  system is flawed - 
the deficit spending is a mere symptom of the underlying,  flawed system.  I 
prefer a new monetary and financial regime - but that  won&#039;t happen until 
the current one fails.  Gov&#039;ts prefer to give the  status quo the benefit of 
the doubt and write checks willy-nilly until it&#039;s  too late, however obvious 
the problem is.



Well, I think you&#039;re wrong about FDR&#039;s New Deal.  I&#039;ve written about  this 
before, but see
 
_http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/time-for-a-new-%E2%80%9Cnew-deal%E2%80
%9D/_ (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/time-for-a-new-“new-deal”/) 
 
If you measure the statistical data correctly (incorporating the Workfare  
schemes), you see that unemployment dropped from 25% to 9.6% by 1936.  You  
think Obama&#039;s Presidency might be considered a success if he reduced  
unemployment by two-thirds during his first term in office.
 
On Japan, that it&#039;s &quot;self-financing&quot; represents a flawed view of  bonds.  
They don&#039;t &quot;fund&quot; anything.  Whether the owner is Japanese or  a Chinese 
person holding a US Treasury, the causality you imply is  backwards.  See the 
following:
 
 
_http://cas.umkc.edu/econ/economics/faculty/Forstater/papers/Forstater2003/F
orstater2003_AE_Bondsales.pdf_ (http://cas.umkc.edu/econ/economics/faculty/
Forstater/papers/Forstater2003/Forstater2003_AE_Bondsales.pdf)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a message dated 1/31/2010 16:41:16 Mountain Standard Time,<br />
 writes:</p>
<p>MA &#8211; I  guess we&#8217;ll just have to wait and see.</p>
<p>My prediction on  Japan:</p>
<p>Japanese debt is largely self-financed &#8211; yet there will  be limits to that<br />
and we will see a change in internal demand and many buyers  will become net<br />
sellers.  Japan will look abroad for demand and yields  will have to rise.  </p>
<p>Trade between nations with asymmetric  wage/labor/environmental laws<br />
destroys jobs for the more regulated  nation.  These jobs will not come back.  GDP<br />
will be impacted.   This is not a red herring.</p>
<p>The only Job Guarantee Program that  worked under Roosevelt was a World<br />
War.  I&#8217;m no fan of  that.</p>
<p>I agree that we need to continue deficit spending &#8211; but  only because we<br />
have a debt based monetary system that requires it.  The  system is flawed &#8211;<br />
the deficit spending is a mere symptom of the underlying,  flawed system.  I<br />
prefer a new monetary and financial regime &#8211; but that  won&#8217;t happen until<br />
the current one fails.  Gov&#8217;ts prefer to give the  status quo the benefit of<br />
the doubt and write checks willy-nilly until it&#8217;s  too late, however obvious<br />
the problem is.</p>
<p>Well, I think you&#8217;re wrong about FDR&#8217;s New Deal.  I&#8217;ve written about  this<br />
before, but see</p>
<p>_http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/time-for-a-new-%E2%80%9Cnew-deal%E2%80<br />
%9D/_ (<a href="http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/time-for-a-new-“new-deal”/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/time-for-a-new-“new-deal”/</a>) </p>
<p>If you measure the statistical data correctly (incorporating the Workfare<br />
schemes), you see that unemployment dropped from 25% to 9.6% by 1936.  You<br />
think Obama&#8217;s Presidency might be considered a success if he reduced<br />
unemployment by two-thirds during his first term in office.</p>
<p>On Japan, that it&#8217;s &#8220;self-financing&#8221; represents a flawed view of  bonds.<br />
They don&#8217;t &#8220;fund&#8221; anything.  Whether the owner is Japanese or  a Chinese<br />
person holding a US Treasury, the causality you imply is  backwards.  See the<br />
following:</p>
<p>_http://cas.umkc.edu/econ/economics/faculty/Forstater/papers/Forstater2003/F<br />
orstater2003_AE_Bondsales.pdf_ (<a href="http://cas.umkc.edu/econ/economics/faculty/" rel="nofollow">http://cas.umkc.edu/econ/economics/faculty/</a><br />
Forstater/papers/Forstater2003/Forstater2003_AE_Bondsales.pdf)</p>
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		<title>By: gnk</title>
		<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58271</link>
		<dc:creator>gnk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58271</guid>
		<description>MA - I guess we&#039;ll just have to wait and see.

My prediction on Japan:

Japanese debt is largely self-financed - yet there will be limits to that and we will see a change in internal demand and many buyers will become net sellers.  Japan will look abroad for demand and yields will have to rise.  

Trade between nations with asymmetric wage/labor/environmental laws destroys jobs for the more regulated nation.  These jobs will not come back.  GDP will be impacted.  This is not a red herring.

The only Job Guarantee Program that worked under Roosevelt was a World War.  I&#039;m no fan of that.

I agree that we need to continue deficit spending - but only because we have a debt based monetary system that requires it.  The system is flawed - the deficit spending is a mere symptom of the underlying, flawed system.  I prefer a new monetary and financial regime - but that won&#039;t happen until the current one fails.  Gov&#039;ts prefer to give the status quo the benefit of the doubt and write checks willy-nilly until it&#039;s too late, however obvious the problem is.

I guess I&#039;m as much a doomer as Faber is after all. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MA &#8211; I guess we&#8217;ll just have to wait and see.</p>
<p>My prediction on Japan:</p>
<p>Japanese debt is largely self-financed &#8211; yet there will be limits to that and we will see a change in internal demand and many buyers will become net sellers.  Japan will look abroad for demand and yields will have to rise.  </p>
<p>Trade between nations with asymmetric wage/labor/environmental laws destroys jobs for the more regulated nation.  These jobs will not come back.  GDP will be impacted.  This is not a red herring.</p>
<p>The only Job Guarantee Program that worked under Roosevelt was a World War.  I&#8217;m no fan of that.</p>
<p>I agree that we need to continue deficit spending &#8211; but only because we have a debt based monetary system that requires it.  The system is flawed &#8211; the deficit spending is a mere symptom of the underlying, flawed system.  I prefer a new monetary and financial regime &#8211; but that won&#8217;t happen until the current one fails.  Gov&#8217;ts prefer to give the status quo the benefit of the doubt and write checks willy-nilly until it&#8217;s too late, however obvious the problem is.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m as much a doomer as Faber is after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Marshall Auerback</title>
		<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58270</link>
		<dc:creator>Marshall Auerback</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58270</guid>
		<description>The trade rules are a red herring. Debt servicing is always manageable when a country issues debt in its own free floating non-convertible currency. The &quot;markets&quot; do not determine our level of interest rates. The central bank does- see Japan.
On the issue of trade, via a Job Guarantee program, the US can move toward a full employment policy.
The alternative - cutting back today&#039;s expenditure to &quot;fund&quot; these alleged unfunded liabilities will simply mean less growth today, likely higher unemployment and bigger deficits. I fail to see how that solves the problem you describe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The trade rules are a red herring. Debt servicing is always manageable when a country issues debt in its own free floating non-convertible currency. The &#8220;markets&#8221; do not determine our level of interest rates. The central bank does- see Japan.<br />
On the issue of trade, via a Job Guarantee program, the US can move toward a full employment policy.<br />
The alternative &#8211; cutting back today&#8217;s expenditure to &#8220;fund&#8221; these alleged unfunded liabilities will simply mean less growth today, likely higher unemployment and bigger deficits. I fail to see how that solves the problem you describe.</p>
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		<title>By: gnk</title>
		<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58269</link>
		<dc:creator>gnk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58269</guid>
		<description>MA - I agree that a sovereign cannot experience Bankruptcy so long as it controls the creation of its currency.

Nonetheless, ours is a system where currency creation is done thru debt, and with debt, comes the payment of interest.  Will this debt servicing always be manageable?  Will the cost of debt servicing continually increase as a percentage of tax revenues?  How will the bond market react in coming years?

Will the US gov&#039;t bail out states, state unemployment funds, state pension funds, and any future banks or corporations?

As for future GDP growth covering these expenses - I have doubts here.  Our economy has increasingly become dependent on debt-driven asset valuations - a system that has obviously reached its limits - and continues to survive due to gov&#039;t intervention.  Global wage arbitrage thru the inclusion of Asian countries in GATT - now the WTO, will continue to wreak havoc on wages in the Western world, and thus tax revenues - just at a time when entitlements are expected to grow.  Energy costs too - have an impact on our economy.  I don&#039;t mean to create a litany of issues to be adressed, I am just pointing out that there are a convergence of processes that all impact the ability of the US economy to grow.

A sovereign that controls its currency may not experience bankruptcy - but loosely speaking - its own currency can.



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MA &#8211; I agree that a sovereign cannot experience Bankruptcy so long as it controls the creation of its currency.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, ours is a system where currency creation is done thru debt, and with debt, comes the payment of interest.  Will this debt servicing always be manageable?  Will the cost of debt servicing continually increase as a percentage of tax revenues?  How will the bond market react in coming years?</p>
<p>Will the US gov&#8217;t bail out states, state unemployment funds, state pension funds, and any future banks or corporations?</p>
<p>As for future GDP growth covering these expenses &#8211; I have doubts here.  Our economy has increasingly become dependent on debt-driven asset valuations &#8211; a system that has obviously reached its limits &#8211; and continues to survive due to gov&#8217;t intervention.  Global wage arbitrage thru the inclusion of Asian countries in GATT &#8211; now the WTO, will continue to wreak havoc on wages in the Western world, and thus tax revenues &#8211; just at a time when entitlements are expected to grow.  Energy costs too &#8211; have an impact on our economy.  I don&#8217;t mean to create a litany of issues to be adressed, I am just pointing out that there are a convergence of processes that all impact the ability of the US economy to grow.</p>
<p>A sovereign that controls its currency may not experience bankruptcy &#8211; but loosely speaking &#8211; its own currency can.</p>
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		<title>By: Marshall Auerback</title>
		<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58267</link>
		<dc:creator>Marshall Auerback</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 17:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58267</guid>
		<description>In a message dated 1/31/2010 10:14:19 Mountain Standard Time,  
 writes:

It&#039;s  easy to dismiss him as merely entertaining.  But really, let&#039;s look 
at  the challenges the US faces...  the unfunded liabilities in Social Sec  
and Medicare/aid, the state pension fund shortfalls, the looming federal  
budget deficits of the next ten years, the rising and accumulating interest  
costs of that very same deficit, the likely gov&#039;t reaction to deflationary  
forces, the global soveriegn bond market...  I could go on and  on.




&quot;Unfunded liabilities&quot; in social security and the like is based on a  
misunderstand of public reserve accounting.  I don&#039;t believe there is an  
operational constraint on the Government’s ability to meet all Social Security  
payments in a timely manner.   

It doesn’t matter what  the numbers are in the Social Security Trust Fund 
account.   

The trust fund is  nothing more than record keeping, as are all accounts at 
the Fed.   

So I don&#039;t buy  the &quot;intergenerational debt&quot; story.  
50 years from now when  there is one person left working and 300 million 
retired people (I exaggerate to  make the point), that guy is going to pretty 
busy since he’ll have to grow all  the food, build and maintain all the 
buildings, do the laundry, take care of all  medical needs, produce the TV 
shows, etc., etc., etc. 

So what we need to do  is make sure those 300 million retired people have 
the funds to pay  him???  I don’t think so!  This problem  obviously isn’t 
about money.  The ultimate irony is that  in order to somehow ‘save’ public 
funds for the future, what we do is cut back  on expenditures today, which 
does nothing but set our economy back and cause the  growth of output and 
employment to decline. 

And, for the final  ‘worse yet,’ the great irony is that the first thing 
they cut back on is  education- the one thing the mainstream agrees should be 
done that actually  helps our children 50 years down the road.  

Should our policy  makers ever actually get a handle on how the monetary 
system functions, they  would realize the issue is social equity, and possibly 
inflation, but never  government solvency.   

They would realize that  if they want seniors to have more income at any 
time, it’s a simple matter of  raising benefits, and that the real question 
is, what level of real resource  consumption do we want to provide for our 
seniors?  How much  food do we want to allocate to them?  How much  housing?  
Clothing?  Electricity?  Gasoline?  Medical  services?  Those are the real 
issues, and yes, giving seniors  more of those goods and services means less 
for us.  But that&#039;s the  real issue here. =</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a message dated 1/31/2010 10:14:19 Mountain Standard Time,<br />
 writes:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s  easy to dismiss him as merely entertaining.  But really, let&#8217;s look<br />
at  the challenges the US faces&#8230;  the unfunded liabilities in Social Sec<br />
and Medicare/aid, the state pension fund shortfalls, the looming federal<br />
budget deficits of the next ten years, the rising and accumulating interest<br />
costs of that very same deficit, the likely gov&#8217;t reaction to deflationary<br />
forces, the global soveriegn bond market&#8230;  I could go on and  on.</p>
<p>&#8220;Unfunded liabilities&#8221; in social security and the like is based on a<br />
misunderstand of public reserve accounting.  I don&#8217;t believe there is an<br />
operational constraint on the Government’s ability to meet all Social Security<br />
payments in a timely manner.   </p>
<p>It doesn’t matter what  the numbers are in the Social Security Trust Fund<br />
account.   </p>
<p>The trust fund is  nothing more than record keeping, as are all accounts at<br />
the Fed.   </p>
<p>So I don&#8217;t buy  the &#8220;intergenerational debt&#8221; story.<br />
50 years from now when  there is one person left working and 300 million<br />
retired people (I exaggerate to  make the point), that guy is going to pretty<br />
busy since he’ll have to grow all  the food, build and maintain all the<br />
buildings, do the laundry, take care of all  medical needs, produce the TV<br />
shows, etc., etc., etc. </p>
<p>So what we need to do  is make sure those 300 million retired people have<br />
the funds to pay  him???  I don’t think so!  This problem  obviously isn’t<br />
about money.  The ultimate irony is that  in order to somehow ‘save’ public<br />
funds for the future, what we do is cut back  on expenditures today, which<br />
does nothing but set our economy back and cause the  growth of output and<br />
employment to decline. </p>
<p>And, for the final  ‘worse yet,’ the great irony is that the first thing<br />
they cut back on is  education- the one thing the mainstream agrees should be<br />
done that actually  helps our children 50 years down the road.  </p>
<p>Should our policy  makers ever actually get a handle on how the monetary<br />
system functions, they  would realize the issue is social equity, and possibly<br />
inflation, but never  government solvency.   </p>
<p>They would realize that  if they want seniors to have more income at any<br />
time, it’s a simple matter of  raising benefits, and that the real question<br />
is, what level of real resource  consumption do we want to provide for our<br />
seniors?  How much  food do we want to allocate to them?  How much  housing?<br />
Clothing?  Electricity?  Gasoline?  Medical  services?  Those are the real<br />
issues, and yes, giving seniors  more of those goods and services means less<br />
for us.  But that&#8217;s the  real issue here. =</p>
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		<title>By: gnk</title>
		<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58266</link>
		<dc:creator>gnk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 17:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/01/marc-faber-obama-makes-bush-look-like-a-genius.html#comment-58266</guid>
		<description>Edward, I&#039;ve been following Marc Faber for a few years now, and one thing I learned about him - he points out the most distressing challenges the US faces, and doesn&#039;t fear going out on a limb when forecasting the consequences of how the gov&#039;t will likely handle those challenges.  

It&#039;s easy to dismiss him as merely entertaining.  But really, let&#039;s look at the challenges the US faces...  the unfunded liabilities in Social Sec and Medicare/aid, the state pension fund shortfalls, the looming federal budget deficits of the next ten years, the rising and accumulating interest costs of that very same deficit, the likely gov&#039;t reaction to deflationary forces, the global soveriegn bond market...  I could go on and on.

That said - is it &quot;entertaining&quot; to publicly discuss those challenges and arrive at a &quot;unpalatable&quot; conclusion?

What&#039;s your take?  I enjoy your blog - but I also want to see you go out on a limb and honestly address how those challenges play out in toto over the next decade.

Would your conclusion be &quot;entertaining?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edward, I&#8217;ve been following Marc Faber for a few years now, and one thing I learned about him &#8211; he points out the most distressing challenges the US faces, and doesn&#8217;t fear going out on a limb when forecasting the consequences of how the gov&#8217;t will likely handle those challenges.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy to dismiss him as merely entertaining.  But really, let&#8217;s look at the challenges the US faces&#8230;  the unfunded liabilities in Social Sec and Medicare/aid, the state pension fund shortfalls, the looming federal budget deficits of the next ten years, the rising and accumulating interest costs of that very same deficit, the likely gov&#8217;t reaction to deflationary forces, the global soveriegn bond market&#8230;  I could go on and on.</p>
<p>That said &#8211; is it &#8220;entertaining&#8221; to publicly discuss those challenges and arrive at a &#8220;unpalatable&#8221; conclusion?</p>
<p>What&#8217;s your take?  I enjoy your blog &#8211; but I also want to see you go out on a limb and honestly address how those challenges play out in toto over the next decade.</p>
<p>Would your conclusion be &#8220;entertaining?&#8221;</p>
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