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> <channel><title>Comments on: Depressionary bust in Ireland is echoed in California</title> <atom:link href="http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html</link> <description>a finance news and opinion site</description> <lastBuildDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:01:04 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <item><title>By: Greek financial debacle threatens Swiss banks - Credit Writedowns</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-9921</link> <dc:creator>Greek financial debacle threatens Swiss banks - Credit Writedowns</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:40:32 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-9921</guid> <description>[...] storing up major trouble – and without the currency escape hatch – which makes these countries more akin to states like California, Michigan, or New York than the U.S. Sovereign credit ratings have been cut repeatedly in Ireland, [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] storing up major trouble – and without the currency escape hatch – which makes these countries more akin to states like California, Michigan, or New York than the U.S. Sovereign credit ratings have been cut repeatedly in Ireland, [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: My faves for the day (July 20, 2009) &#171; ExRussian</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5879</link> <dc:creator>My faves for the day (July 20, 2009) &#171; ExRussian</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 00:10:12 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5879</guid> <description>[...] faves for the day (July 20, 2009)   Depressionary bust in Ireland is echoed in California (James Harrison at Credit Writedowns [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] faves for the day (July 20, 2009)   Depressionary bust in Ireland is echoed in California (James Harrison at Credit Writedowns [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: My faves for the day (July 20, 2009) &#171; exrussian.com</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5875</link> <dc:creator>My faves for the day (July 20, 2009) &#171; exrussian.com</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:37:31 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5875</guid> <description>[...] Depressionary bust in Ireland is echoed in California (James Harrison at Credit Writedowns blog) [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Depressionary bust in Ireland is echoed in California (James Harrison at Credit Writedowns blog) [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: TheTradingReport &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Where California and Ireland Diverge</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5872</link> <dc:creator>TheTradingReport &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Where California and Ireland Diverge</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:32:32 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5872</guid> <description>[...] not think it, Ireland and California are suffering through very similar economic downturns, says Edward Harrison. Both have seen collapsing housing bubbles and imploding consumer demand. Perhaps more importantly, [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] not think it, Ireland and California are suffering through very similar economic downturns, says Edward Harrison. Both have seen collapsing housing bubbles and imploding consumer demand. Perhaps more importantly, [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: kevinlynch</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-8053</link> <dc:creator>kevinlynch</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:50:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-8053</guid> <description>The public pay bill and social welfare system in Ireland is far too generous and needs to be cut drastically. One third of the national tax take is eaten up by welfare payments! Although politically unpalatable, slashing welfare would therefore significantly bridge the budgetary gap. Here&#039;s a few of the more egregious examples of the public sector and welfare-gone-mad; public servants, such as teachers, earn around Us100k per year, depending on period of service. Meanwhile, unemployed school-leavers get over Us$250 per week unemployment benefit, regardless of social insurance contributions! Every family, regardless of means, gets almost US$200 per month for each child they have (children&#039;s allowance) and if you have 3 or more, you get over Us#250 per additional child! Welfare is far more generous than in comparable European countries. We can&#039;t afford it and it&#039;s a breeders&#039; charter for the idle, feckless working class. And I&#039;ve had quite enough.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The public pay bill and social welfare system in Ireland is far too generous and needs to be cut drastically. One third of the national tax take is eaten up by welfare payments! Although politically unpalatable, slashing welfare would therefore significantly bridge the budgetary gap. Here&#39;s a few of the more egregious examples of the public sector and welfare-gone-mad; public servants, such as teachers, earn around Us100k per year, depending on period of service. Meanwhile, unemployed school-leavers get over Us$250 per week unemployment benefit, regardless of social insurance contributions! Every family, regardless of means, gets almost US$200 per month for each child they have (children&#39;s allowance) and if you have 3 or more, you get over Us#250 per additional child! Welfare is far more generous than in comparable European countries. We can&#39;t afford it and it&#39;s a breeders&#39; charter for the idle, feckless working class. And I&#39;ve had quite enough.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: How about Gold-backed IOUs for Ireland? - Credit Writedowns</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5871</link> <dc:creator>How about Gold-backed IOUs for Ireland? - Credit Writedowns</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:28:33 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5871</guid> <description>[...] a Gold-backed IOU system.&#160; In response to a recent post I wrote on the similarities in the troubles in California and Ireland, he wrote:Now here&#8217;s a curve ball for ya: what would happen if a state or even a private bank [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a Gold-backed IOU system.&#160; In response to a recent post I wrote on the similarities in the troubles in California and Ireland, he wrote:Now here&#8217;s a curve ball for ya: what would happen if a state or even a private bank [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: kevinlynch</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-6004</link> <dc:creator>kevinlynch</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 17:50:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-6004</guid> <description>The public pay bill and social welfare system in Ireland is far too generous and needs to be cut drastically. One third of the national tax take is eaten up by welfare payments! Although politically unpalatable, slashing welfare would therefore significantly bridge the budgetary gap. Here&#039;s a few of the more egregious examples of the public sector and welfare-gone-mad; public servants, such as teachers, earn around Us100k per year, depending on period of service. Meanwhile, unemployed school-leavers get over Us$250 per week unemployment benefit, regardless of social insurance contributions! Every family, regardless of means, gets almost US$200 per month for each child they have (children&#039;s allowance) and if you have 3 or more, you get over Us#250 per additional child! Welfare is far more generous than in comparable European countries. We can&#039;t afford it and it&#039;s a breeders&#039; charter for the idle, feckless working class. And I&#039;ve had quite enough.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The public pay bill and social welfare system in Ireland is far too generous and needs to be cut drastically. One third of the national tax take is eaten up by welfare payments! Although politically unpalatable, slashing welfare would therefore significantly bridge the budgetary gap. Here&#39;s a few of the more egregious examples of the public sector and welfare-gone-mad; public servants, such as teachers, earn around Us100k per year, depending on period of service. Meanwhile, unemployed school-leavers get over Us$250 per week unemployment benefit, regardless of social insurance contributions! Every family, regardless of means, gets almost US$200 per month for each child they have (children&#39;s allowance) and if you have 3 or more, you get over Us#250 per additional child! Welfare is far more generous than in comparable European countries. We can&#39;t afford it and it&#39;s a breeders&#39; charter for the idle, feckless working class. And I&#39;ve had quite enough.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Secondary Sources: House Prices, Fed, California vs. Ireland, Stiglitz - Real Time Economics - WSJ</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5869</link> <dc:creator>Secondary Sources: House Prices, Fed, California vs. Ireland, Stiglitz - Real Time Economics - WSJ</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:08:36 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5869</guid> <description>[...] Ireland and California: Writing for Credit Writedowns, Edward Harrison sees similarities between Ireland and California. &#8220;For quite some time now I have been of the view that there are a number of striking similarities between the goings on in Ireland and those in California, none of them good. Both locations have seen extraordinary rises in home prices turn to massive busts. As a result, both locales have seen depression-like collapses in consumer demand and the local economy. Unemployment and government deficits are surging in both California and Ireland. But, both California and Ireland have zero control over monetary policy and this is the crucial connection.&#8221; [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ireland and California: Writing for Credit Writedowns, Edward Harrison sees similarities between Ireland and California. &#8220;For quite some time now I have been of the view that there are a number of striking similarities between the goings on in Ireland and those in California, none of them good. Both locations have seen extraordinary rises in home prices turn to massive busts. As a result, both locales have seen depression-like collapses in consumer demand and the local economy. Unemployment and government deficits are surging in both California and Ireland. But, both California and Ireland have zero control over monetary policy and this is the crucial connection.&#8221; [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: MortgageMods.org &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Secondary Sources: House Prices, Fed, California vs. Ireland, Stiglitz</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5865</link> <dc:creator>MortgageMods.org &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Secondary Sources: House Prices, Fed, California vs. Ireland, Stiglitz</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:00:35 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5865</guid> <description>[...] Ireland and California: Writing for Credit Writedowns, Edward Harrison sees similarities between Ireland and California. &#8220;For quite some time now I have been of the view that there are a number of striking similarities between the goings on in Ireland and those in California, none of them good. Both locations have seen extraordinary rises in home prices turn to massive busts. As a result, both locales have seen depression-like collapses in consumer demand and the local economy. Unemployment and government deficits are surging in both California and Ireland. But, both California and Ireland have zero control over monetary policy and this is the crucial connection.&#8221; [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ireland and California: Writing for Credit Writedowns, Edward Harrison sees similarities between Ireland and California. &#8220;For quite some time now I have been of the view that there are a number of striking similarities between the goings on in Ireland and those in California, none of them good. Both locations have seen extraordinary rises in home prices turn to massive busts. As a result, both locales have seen depression-like collapses in consumer demand and the local economy. Unemployment and government deficits are surging in both California and Ireland. But, both California and Ireland have zero control over monetary policy and this is the crucial connection.&#8221; [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Secondary Sources: House Prices, Fed, California vs. Ireland, Stiglitz &#124; Bailout and Financial Crisis News</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5864</link> <dc:creator>Secondary Sources: House Prices, Fed, California vs. Ireland, Stiglitz &#124; Bailout and Financial Crisis News</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:40:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5864</guid> <description>[...] Ireland and California: Writing for Credit Writedowns, Edward Harrison sees similarities between Ireland and California. “For quite some time now I have been of the view that there are a number of striking similarities between the goings on in Ireland and those in California, none of them good. Both locations have seen extraordinary rises in home prices turn to massive busts. As a result, both locales have seen depression-like collapses in consumer demand and the local economy. Unemployment and government deficits are surging in both California and Ireland. But, both California and Ireland have zero control over monetary policy and this is the crucial connection.” [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ireland and California: Writing for Credit Writedowns, Edward Harrison sees similarities between Ireland and California. “For quite some time now I have been of the view that there are a number of striking similarities between the goings on in Ireland and those in California, none of them good. Both locations have seen extraordinary rises in home prices turn to massive busts. As a result, both locales have seen depression-like collapses in consumer demand and the local economy. Unemployment and government deficits are surging in both California and Ireland. But, both California and Ireland have zero control over monetary policy and this is the crucial connection.” [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: NoteMod.org &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Secondary Sources: House Prices, Fed, California vs. Ireland, Stiglitz</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5860</link> <dc:creator>NoteMod.org &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Secondary Sources: House Prices, Fed, California vs. Ireland, Stiglitz</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:17:13 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5860</guid> <description>[...] Ireland and California: Writing for Credit Writedowns, Edward Harrison sees similarities between Ireland and California. &#8220;For quite some time now I have been of the view that there are a number of striking similarities between the goings on in Ireland and those in California, none of them good. Both locations have seen extraordinary rises in home prices turn to massive busts. As a result, both locales have seen depression-like collapses in consumer demand and the local economy. Unemployment and government deficits are surging in both California and Ireland. But, both California and Ireland have zero control over monetary policy and this is the crucial connection.&#8221; [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ireland and California: Writing for Credit Writedowns, Edward Harrison sees similarities between Ireland and California. &#8220;For quite some time now I have been of the view that there are a number of striking similarities between the goings on in Ireland and those in California, none of them good. Both locations have seen extraordinary rises in home prices turn to massive busts. As a result, both locales have seen depression-like collapses in consumer demand and the local economy. Unemployment and government deficits are surging in both California and Ireland. But, both California and Ireland have zero control over monetary policy and this is the crucial connection.&#8221; [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: bevo</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5855</link> <dc:creator>bevo</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:49:50 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5855</guid> <description>Interesting and well thought out post. I would add one difference between Ireland and California. California&#039;s budget is hobbled by state law. Roughly 67% of California revenue is committed before the legislature and the governor decide what to spend.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Compounding state law is a gerrymandered legislature, which effectively ensures the maintaining of status quo. Thus, the legislature is never beholden to anyone. Many state legislatures have this problem (see New York).  As if these two issues were not enough, state government cannot raise tax without a vote of the people.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;California has created a toxic stew of its own making. As far as I know, and I will admit freely if contrary evidence is presented, no other state or Ireland has created such a doomsday scenario. Given the self-inflicted nature of this wound that is killing the state, I have little sympathy for the state legislature or its citizen.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;They made the mess. They can clean the mess up. As a non-resident, I should not and will not provide a bailout.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting and well thought out post. I would add one difference between Ireland and California. California&#39;s budget is hobbled by state law. Roughly 67% of California revenue is committed before the legislature and the governor decide what to spend.</p><p>Compounding state law is a gerrymandered legislature, which effectively ensures the maintaining of status quo. Thus, the legislature is never beholden to anyone. Many state legislatures have this problem (see New York).  As if these two issues were not enough, state government cannot raise tax without a vote of the people.</p><p>California has created a toxic stew of its own making. As far as I know, and I will admit freely if contrary evidence is presented, no other state or Ireland has created such a doomsday scenario. Given the self-inflicted nature of this wound that is killing the state, I have little sympathy for the state legislature or its citizen.</p><p>They made the mess. They can clean the mess up. As a non-resident, I should not and will not provide a bailout.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: OregonGuy</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5853</link> <dc:creator>OregonGuy</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 16:11:26 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5853</guid> <description>Eventually the script needs to be redeemed in something other than script, unless CA allows state taxes to be paid in script. Allowing the remittance of both script and dollars to pay state taxes at 1:1 equivalence would establish the rate of exchange.  CA would receive 100% of the script in circulation for tax remittance before it receives a Federal Reserve note.  Gresham&#039;s Law in action.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So establishing confidence in script requires backing.  CA wouldn&#039;t have Au or Ag to do the job - if the State had the cash to buy the metals it wouldn&#039;t need script.  CA could use State-owned land, offshore drilling rights, etc. to back the script.  It worked for Schacht at the Reichsbank after hyperinflation.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This could be fun.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eventually the script needs to be redeemed in something other than script, unless CA allows state taxes to be paid in script. Allowing the remittance of both script and dollars to pay state taxes at 1:1 equivalence would establish the rate of exchange.  CA would receive 100% of the script in circulation for tax remittance before it receives a Federal Reserve note.  Gresham&#39;s Law in action.</p><p>So establishing confidence in script requires backing.  CA wouldn&#39;t have Au or Ag to do the job &#8211; if the State had the cash to buy the metals it wouldn&#39;t need script.  CA could use State-owned land, offshore drilling rights, etc. to back the script.  It worked for Schacht at the Reichsbank after hyperinflation.</p><p>This could be fun.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Edward Harrison</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5852</link> <dc:creator>Edward Harrison</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:47:18 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5852</guid> <description>eric, good point regarding the effect of issuing the IOUs.  I&#039;m sure this is an issue which could eventually make it into the courts because it has serious legal ramifications.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I agree that the Federal Government turning &#039;a blind eye&#039; to this is the equivalent of added stimulus for states.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Very interesting.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eric, good point regarding the effect of issuing the IOUs.  I&#39;m sure this is an issue which could eventually make it into the courts because it has serious legal ramifications.</p><p>I agree that the Federal Government turning &#39;a blind eye&#39; to this is the equivalent of added stimulus for states.</p><p>Very interesting.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Edward Harrison</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5851</link> <dc:creator>Edward Harrison</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:42:26 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5851</guid> <description>aitrader THAT is a very interesting idea - the addition of gold into the concept.  I have some further ideas based n this that I will hopefully make into a post later today or tomorrow.  Thanks for the idea.&lt;br&gt;Edward</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aitrader THAT is a very interesting idea &#8211; the addition of gold into the concept.  I have some further ideas based n this that I will hopefully make into a post later today or tomorrow.  Thanks for the idea.<br
/>Edward</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: eric_blair</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5850</link> <dc:creator>eric_blair</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:18:18 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5850</guid> <description>California&#039;s IOUs are currency, for all practical purposes--not dollars, but currency of some kind.  We&#039;re printing our own money--not borrowing it, but printing it.  However, one common theme that I have read from many leading economists (notably Krugman) is that the government needs a second stimulus package to get us through the depression, even though this is not politically feasible.  One of the pressing needs to be addressed by this stimulus would be aid to the states, which would otherwise be forced into the kind of brutal, massive spending cutbacks that are exactly the kind of thing that you want to avoid right now.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Might not letting states issue IOUs, and treating them as currency, amount to much the same thing?  If we had, say, a $200 billion dollar stimulus package for giving aid to the states, which the feds would pay for by printing money and then going to the bond markets, how different is that from letting states issue $200 billion of scrip?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>California&#39;s IOUs are currency, for all practical purposes&#8211;not dollars, but currency of some kind.  We&#39;re printing our own money&#8211;not borrowing it, but printing it.  However, one common theme that I have read from many leading economists (notably Krugman) is that the government needs a second stimulus package to get us through the depression, even though this is not politically feasible.  One of the pressing needs to be addressed by this stimulus would be aid to the states, which would otherwise be forced into the kind of brutal, massive spending cutbacks that are exactly the kind of thing that you want to avoid right now.</p><p>Might not letting states issue IOUs, and treating them as currency, amount to much the same thing?  If we had, say, a $200 billion dollar stimulus package for giving aid to the states, which the feds would pay for by printing money and then going to the bond markets, how different is that from letting states issue $200 billion of scrip?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: aitrader</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5849</link> <dc:creator>aitrader</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 07:08:21 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5849</guid> <description>I&#039;d say door #2 is the most likely outcome for California. The US Federal Gov will threaten and cajole, most likely withdrawing highway funding (as Reagan threatened to do to states who did not raise the drinking age to 21 in the 1980&#039;s), but in the end they have two choices - either bail California out or let them print their own currency.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The problem with bailing out California is that every other state in financial trouble will expect the same help. Allowing the California IOU&#039;s to be treated as currency will open the door to other states following suit as well.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In the end I expect California and the Federal Gov to make a deal where California limits the exchange of IOU&#039;s to something that does not compete directly with Federal Reserve dollars.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;-------------&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now here&#039;s a curve ball for ya: what would happen if a state or even a private bank were to issue currency redeemable in gold or silver? What would the implications be for the US Federal Reserve? This was the situation for many years in the US. Private banks often issued their own paper currency redeemable in gold and silver. There is nothing illegal about this, though one would assume a new law would be crafted and passed to prevent this from occuring. On that note here is what happened recently to a private currency issuer, &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar#Federal_Government_response&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar#Fed...&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Interesting times...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;d say door #2 is the most likely outcome for California. The US Federal Gov will threaten and cajole, most likely withdrawing highway funding (as Reagan threatened to do to states who did not raise the drinking age to 21 in the 1980&#39;s), but in the end they have two choices &#8211; either bail California out or let them print their own currency.</p><p>The problem with bailing out California is that every other state in financial trouble will expect the same help. Allowing the California IOU&#39;s to be treated as currency will open the door to other states following suit as well.</p><p>In the end I expect California and the Federal Gov to make a deal where California limits the exchange of IOU&#39;s to something that does not compete directly with Federal Reserve dollars.</p><p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p><p>Now here&#39;s a curve ball for ya: what would happen if a state or even a private bank were to issue currency redeemable in gold or silver? What would the implications be for the US Federal Reserve? This was the situation for many years in the US. Private banks often issued their own paper currency redeemable in gold and silver. There is nothing illegal about this, though one would assume a new law would be crafted and passed to prevent this from occuring. On that note here is what happened recently to a private currency issuer, <a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar#Federal_Government_response" rel="nofollow"></a><a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar#Fed.." rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar#Fed..</a>..</p><p>Interesting times&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Edward Harrison</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5848</link> <dc:creator>Edward Harrison</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 03:17:05 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5848</guid> <description>I don&#039;t really buy it.  His last line was essentially inflationary: &quot;The imperative for the debt-bloated West is to cut spending systematically for year after year, off-setting the deflationary effect with monetary stimulus. This is the only mix that can save us.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I see excessive monetary stimulus as poison to judging risk, asset allocation and longer-term inflation.  In general, I would prefer an Austrian approach of consolidation both fiscally and monetarily.  But to the degree depression is the outcome, and the spigot needs to be loosened, I think it is the fiscal spigot first (initially through automatic stabilizers and then through other temporary means).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;His argument is just the opposite.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Depression IS a potential outcome and I do think it has been forestalled/averted - in part because of stimulus.  Ultimately, I see this is a philosophical question more than an economic one because it is very difficult to tease out the individual factors responsible for economic success or failure when so much has been done.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t really buy it.  His last line was essentially inflationary: &#8220;The imperative for the debt-bloated West is to cut spending systematically for year after year, off-setting the deflationary effect with monetary stimulus. This is the only mix that can save us.&#8221;</p><p>I see excessive monetary stimulus as poison to judging risk, asset allocation and longer-term inflation.  In general, I would prefer an Austrian approach of consolidation both fiscally and monetarily.  But to the degree depression is the outcome, and the spigot needs to be loosened, I think it is the fiscal spigot first (initially through automatic stabilizers and then through other temporary means).</p><p>His argument is just the opposite.</p><p>Depression IS a potential outcome and I do think it has been forestalled/averted &#8211; in part because of stimulus.  Ultimately, I see this is a philosophical question more than an economic one because it is very difficult to tease out the individual factors responsible for economic success or failure when so much has been done.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: tomlindmark</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5847</link> <dc:creator>tomlindmark</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 03:02:43 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5847</guid> <description>This is a clever connection, congratulations.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What do you think about the larger point that Evans-Pritchard was making that not only is fiscal stimulus leading us towards the Irish (California?) dilema but that the only road out is monetary stimulus coupled with multi-year cuts in national spending?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a clever connection, congratulations.</p><p>What do you think about the larger point that Evans-Pritchard was making that not only is fiscal stimulus leading us towards the Irish (California?) dilema but that the only road out is monetary stimulus coupled with multi-year cuts in national spending?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: thejimgaudet</title><link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5846</link> <dc:creator>thejimgaudet</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 00:49:20 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/07/depressionary-bust-in-ireland-is-echoed-in-california.html#comment-5846</guid> <description>Sorry, but what about Marijuana? I just read an article from the AP about 50% of the citizens in California are for the legalization of it. And that the companies that would profit from it are enormous, not to mention the article read the marijuana is the most profitable crop in California...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but what about Marijuana? I just read an article from the AP about 50% of the citizens in California are for the legalization of it. And that the companies that would profit from it are enormous, not to mention the article read the marijuana is the most profitable crop in California&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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