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	<title>Comments on: Lehman&#8217;s bankruptcy: putting the cart before the horse?</title>
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		<title>By: Edward Harrison</title>
		<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/09/lehmans-bankruptcy-putting-horse-before.html/comment-page-1#comment-4251</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/09/lehmans-bankruptcy-putting-the-cart-before-the-horse.html#comment-4251</guid>
		<description>I should also note that clauses in the market-to-market accounting rule actually do not require assets to be marked down if the marks are the result of a distressed sale.  So, the loss in value of these instruments was not a result of writedowns as I had said here at all, but a result of forced sales.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should also note that clauses in the market-to-market accounting rule actually do not require assets to be marked down if the marks are the result of a distressed sale.  So, the loss in value of these instruments was not a result of writedowns as I had said here at all, but a result of forced sales.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Harrison</title>
		<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/09/lehmans-bankruptcy-putting-horse-before.html/comment-page-1#comment-4250</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/09/lehmans-bankruptcy-putting-the-cart-before-the-horse.html#comment-4250</guid>
		<description>David,

On the whole, I would say my misgivings about Lehman&#039;s failure have been borne out in the market.  And, indeed there were fire-sale prices across the board in all asset classes.  Spreads did NOT come in after the Lehman failure.  They rose.  

Certainly, one can quibble about which markets were actually most affected by the action, but my basic belief had been that the domino transmission would occur because of a loss in market confidence for weaker institutions.  Was AIG destined to fail?  Perhaps.  WaMu.  Same answer.  Did they fail because of Lehman&#039;s failure?  I would say that they were weak institutions who lost the faith of the market, partially as a result of the Lehman failure.

My conclusion here is this:  Lehman was probably bankrupt, as were AIG and WaMu.  However, the U.S. regulators had not and still have not set up an adequate framework in which to deal with a failure of this size.  

Failure is a part of capitalism and banks should be allowed to fail regardless of size.  Letting Lehman fail was not a mistake.  Letting it fail without a contingency plan for that failure was the mistake.  And the turmoil and confusion after Lehman&#039;s failure was an enabler of other failures down the line, deepening and worsening the recession.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>On the whole, I would say my misgivings about Lehman&#8217;s failure have been borne out in the market.  And, indeed there were fire-sale prices across the board in all asset classes.  Spreads did NOT come in after the Lehman failure.  They rose.  </p>
<p>Certainly, one can quibble about which markets were actually most affected by the action, but my basic belief had been that the domino transmission would occur because of a loss in market confidence for weaker institutions.  Was AIG destined to fail?  Perhaps.  WaMu.  Same answer.  Did they fail because of Lehman&#8217;s failure?  I would say that they were weak institutions who lost the faith of the market, partially as a result of the Lehman failure.</p>
<p>My conclusion here is this:  Lehman was probably bankrupt, as were AIG and WaMu.  However, the U.S. regulators had not and still have not set up an adequate framework in which to deal with a failure of this size.  </p>
<p>Failure is a part of capitalism and banks should be allowed to fail regardless of size.  Letting Lehman fail was not a mistake.  Letting it fail without a contingency plan for that failure was the mistake.  And the turmoil and confusion after Lehman&#8217;s failure was an enabler of other failures down the line, deepening and worsening the recession.</p>
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		<title>By: David Pearson</title>
		<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/09/lehmans-bankruptcy-putting-horse-before.html/comment-page-1#comment-4249</link>
		<dc:creator>David Pearson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/09/lehmans-bankruptcy-putting-the-cart-before-the-horse.html#comment-4249</guid>
		<description>Ed,

Interesting post, but I&#039;m not convinced.  Your basic argument is (was) that letting Lehman fail would lead to fire-sales in three classes of assets: CMBS, CDS, RMBS.  These fire-sale would have a domino effect, taking down the financial system.

RMBS did not experience fire-sales.  Spreads came in.  This suggests that letting firms fail with a Fed backstop in place may be a more efficient way of dealing with a troubled bank.

CMBS spreads spiked.  However, there was also a marked (some might say predictable) deterioration in the CRE market, and one could argue that CMBS spreads are rational. Should we prevent rational pricing?  That seems to be the current government view.

Lastly, CDS spreads also spiked and led to AIG&#039;s trouble, and it then &quot;had&quot; to be bailed out.  True enough.  However, now that we know more about just how reckless AIG&#039;s Financial Products Group was, is that spread spike a surprise?   Was it caused by the Lehman domino falling, or by the untentable nature of AIG&#039;s CDS book?  In the absense of a Lehman failure, do you think that book would have held together better?

I suppose what I&#039;m saying boils down to this: correlation is not causality.  Or better yet, there&#039;s a difference between a catalyst (lehman) and a cause (leverage).  If you agree with the catalyst analogy, then the government would have to work mighty hard to neutralize all the catalysts out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed,</p>
<p>Interesting post, but I&#8217;m not convinced.  Your basic argument is (was) that letting Lehman fail would lead to fire-sales in three classes of assets: CMBS, CDS, RMBS.  These fire-sale would have a domino effect, taking down the financial system.</p>
<p>RMBS did not experience fire-sales.  Spreads came in.  This suggests that letting firms fail with a Fed backstop in place may be a more efficient way of dealing with a troubled bank.</p>
<p>CMBS spreads spiked.  However, there was also a marked (some might say predictable) deterioration in the CRE market, and one could argue that CMBS spreads are rational. Should we prevent rational pricing?  That seems to be the current government view.</p>
<p>Lastly, CDS spreads also spiked and led to AIG&#8217;s trouble, and it then &#8220;had&#8221; to be bailed out.  True enough.  However, now that we know more about just how reckless AIG&#8217;s Financial Products Group was, is that spread spike a surprise?   Was it caused by the Lehman domino falling, or by the untentable nature of AIG&#8217;s CDS book?  In the absense of a Lehman failure, do you think that book would have held together better?</p>
<p>I suppose what I&#8217;m saying boils down to this: correlation is not causality.  Or better yet, there&#8217;s a difference between a catalyst (lehman) and a cause (leverage).  If you agree with the catalyst analogy, then the government would have to work mighty hard to neutralize all the catalysts out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Harrison</title>
		<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/09/lehmans-bankruptcy-putting-horse-before.html/comment-page-1#comment-318</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/09/lehmans-bankruptcy-putting-the-cart-before-the-horse.html#comment-318</guid>
		<description>Thanks.  Interesting video but terrible mimic.  It doesn&#039;t sound like Bush at all, does it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks.  Interesting video but terrible mimic.  It doesn&#8217;t sound like Bush at all, does it?</p>
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		<title>By: VidCrayzee</title>
		<link>http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/09/lehmans-bankruptcy-putting-horse-before.html/comment-page-1#comment-295</link>
		<dc:creator>VidCrayzee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/09/lehmans-bankruptcy-putting-the-cart-before-the-horse.html#comment-295</guid>
		<description>George Bush has something humorous to say about Lehman’s woes.  Check out the&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://beema.wordpress.com/2008/09/16/beema-news-2/&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; video here&lt;/a&gt;.  If you can’t laugh you will most definitely cry about all of this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George Bush has something humorous to say about Lehman’s woes.  Check out the<a  href="http://beema.wordpress.com/2008/09/16/beema-news-2/" rel="nofollow" class="external"> video here</a>.  If you can’t laugh you will most definitely cry about all of this.</p>
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